given shives life achievement he must almost be allowed to call his own tune and end the dance when he wants...when he knows its time.
its the same opportunity that shud have been allowed to Lara and all the greats, some of whom were unceremoniously and with disrespect, dispatched.
its time to stop dat!
Shive wants to play and he must be allowed to demonstrate to himself and to the region if he has more to contribute. I am certain he will know when it is time to move on
Marlon Samuels is a changed man
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AFRO
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WI CRICKET IS BIGGER THAN ANY ONE MAN!!..ALLOWING SOMEONE TO PLAY POORLY JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY DONE IN THE PAST IS JUST PLAIN STUPID AND COUNTER PRODUCTIVE!!, WE CAN'T LIVE IN THE PAST, SHIV HAS HAD A GREAT CAREER BUT NOW IT'S TIME FOR HIM TO STEP DOWN IMO.mapoui wrote:given shives life achievement he must almost be allowed to call his own tune and end the dance when he wants...when he knows its time.
its the same opportunity that shud have been allowed to Lara and all the greats, some of whom were unceremoniously and with disrespect, dispatched.
its time to stop dat!
Shive wants to play and he must be allowed to demonstrate to himself and to the region if he has more to contribute. I am certain he will know when it is time to move on
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mapoui
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well how deep and big is your book?WI CRICKET IS BIGGER THAN ANY ONE MAN!!..ALLOWING SOMEONE TO PLAY POORLY JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY DONE IN THE PAST IS JUST PLAIN STUPID AND COUNTER PRODUCTIVE!!, WE CAN'T LIVE IN THE PAST, SHIV HAS HAD A GREAT CAREER BUT NOW IT'S TIME FOR HIM TO STEP DOWN IMO.AFRO
it is always the circumstances dat count. shive has done in the past, up to a year ago, what only gayle has come near to for the westindies. we need more of that.
then the current circumstances are not encouraging and are extenuating which must be be factored when considering shives place..so far.
then the fact that we have no youngsters yet who demonstrate that in shives place deh can give anything close to what we might still get from shive....what we need if we are to even maintain current standing in the world.
alll things considered it makes sense to allow the principle to play...that shive has done a great deal for king and country, and at a time when he has grown a lil suspect, the king mus' show some understanding and patience..
if it does not work in sensible time I suspect shive will walk, obviating any need to shove him over board
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AFRO
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What has Shiv done of late that's been so "special" though? he scored a ton against SA along with Nash on a flat track in a game that was drawn, apart from that he was average, before that in Australia he was POOR, then in our last Test series in Sri-lanka he was SHOCKINGLY BAD again, if he was making big scores before now i could understand keeping him in but he wasn't,mapoui wrote: well how deep and big is your book?
it is always the circumstances dat count. shive has done in the past, up to a year ago, what only gayle has come near to for the westindies. we need more of that.
then the current circumstances are not encouraging and are extenuating which must be be factored when considering shives place..so far.
then the fact that we have no youngsters yet who demonstrate that in shives place deh can give anything close to what we might still get from shive....what we need if we are to even maintain current standing in the world.
alll things considered it makes sense to allow the principle to play...that shive has done a great deal for king and country, and at a time when he has grown a lil suspect, the king mus' show some understanding and patience..
if it does not work in sensible time I suspect shive will walk, obviating any need to shove him over board
Right now we've got EXPERIENCED BATTERS like Samuels who could take his place in the Test team, hell even Sars could take his place too, so people need to stop distorting my argument BECAUSE I'M NOT ASKING FOR A YOUTH TO REPLACE HIM,
You reluctance to let Shiv go is exactly whats wrong with WI cricket imo, we've been losing for years even when he was at his best so do you really think we're suddenly gonna start winning now he's 36 and past his best? it's time to move forward man, and like i said who would sit for Shiv? Nash? NO, Gayle? NO, Barath? NO, Darren? NO, Dwayne? NO, so it looks like people want to leave out Sars and Samuels which i simply cannot agree with.
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mapoui
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the opposite is true too: if we drop shive we wont just start winning.You reluctance to let Shiv go is exactly whats wrong with WI cricket imo, we've been losing for years even when he was at his best so do you really think we're suddenly gonna start winning now he's 36 and past his best?
its simple the equation. I wud not drop shive this coming series against Pak. if he fails that is when I start looking very seriously at his place.
Because it is shive I would no argue as hard as you in opposition to his plac..
and there is nothing about shives place in the team that is fundamental to the problems in westindies cricket currently.
that is like saying Paul Colingwood is what is wrong with english cricket, why england was losing. well they dropped him and deh still lost!
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mapoui
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look here AFRO! I wud not have dropped Dujon and Greenidge when deh did. that was unconscionable and the reason why we lost to the Oz in 1995.
Greenidge and Dujon had at leat 2 high quality years left and we needed those 2 years to transition properly.
inseatd we did the damm fool thing of going into a test against a good Oz team with the imbeciles Campbell and Stuart Williams as openers with all of 1 test between them while greenidge sat and haynes was injured or something.
dujon sat too, scoring tons for jamaica in red Stripe.... while who was the keeper again?
yuh simply do not treat your achieved players that way. you have to be careful and transistion properly
Greenidge and Dujon had at leat 2 high quality years left and we needed those 2 years to transition properly.
inseatd we did the damm fool thing of going into a test against a good Oz team with the imbeciles Campbell and Stuart Williams as openers with all of 1 test between them while greenidge sat and haynes was injured or something.
dujon sat too, scoring tons for jamaica in red Stripe.... while who was the keeper again?
yuh simply do not treat your achieved players that way. you have to be careful and transistion properly
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mapoui
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as a matter of fact I wanted lara to get selected for IPL and come out of retirement with a view to coming back in tess cricket.
I would love nutten better than to see Lara in uniform again!
when shive is done we will know. it seems he wants to play, his last innings was pretty good so so we shud be patient for a lil while yet!
dem felers are 2 of the best ever. we know how good deh are. for dat reason we cn afford to be patient.
we are not dealing with shittongs. we are not being patient with Hooper for example but shive who has what... 9 thousand tess runs?
be cool man!
I would love nutten better than to see Lara in uniform again!
when shive is done we will know. it seems he wants to play, his last innings was pretty good so so we shud be patient for a lil while yet!
dem felers are 2 of the best ever. we know how good deh are. for dat reason we cn afford to be patient.
we are not dealing with shittongs. we are not being patient with Hooper for example but shive who has what... 9 thousand tess runs?
be cool man!
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AFRO
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Examples from the past should NOT be used as an excuse, Shiv only has himself to blame for his poor form, no-one else, and if WI cricket allows players to perform poorly with no consequences then whats the point of even playing Test cricket? LIVING IN THE PAST WON'T TAKE US FORWARD, Shiv's time has come and gone man, that one knock against Pak in the world cup merely slowed down the run rate and he never looked settled at all,mapoui wrote:as a matter of fact I wanted lara to get selected for IPL and come out of retirement with a view to coming back in tess cricket.
I would love nutten better than to see Lara in uniform again!
when shive is done we will know. it seems he wants to play, his last innings was pretty good so so we shud be patient for a lil while yet!
dem felers are 2 of the best ever. we know how good deh are. for dat reason we cn afford to be patient.
we are not dealing with shittongs. we are not being patient with Hooper for example but shive who has what... 9 thousand tess runs?
be cool man!
The fact is he was poor in his last Test series and POOR for the majority of the world cup which is why he was dropped, people aren't calling for him to be dropped for nothing, THERE'S A REASON,
Gayle
Barath
Darren
Samuels/Sars
Nash
Dwayne
Baugh
is our best top order IMO and Shiv simply isn't needed now, so like i said who would you drop out of those players to fit Shiv in?
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mapoui
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not as excuse....as precedent and as factors leading to a broader impression of the situation that yours AFRO
the impression I have you is very westindian and very old, a very narrow perspective of theings and people westindian. I would bet any money that if you or we were considering a white man, a white player, all the factors of consideration I bring to bear on Shive, Dujon, Greenidge you would take naturally in stride.
that is because consciously or not we see, respond and treat white people as human and not ourselves and our own
that is how we have learned to treat each other, grew up that way. we feed each other nutten and how we get where we are is up to we. when we good all enjoy, and discard the moment there is the suggestion of an end to our usefulness and quality.
when I look at our old players what they achieved comes to mind. you have no idea what it was like living during the times of these players and their achievements. I remember quite in canada following Lara and Shive as Lara set a new world record....
I know shive as a fisehrman son who could barely read and write who made of himself a great player. there have been many like him in our annals. remember constantine. these are the human beings you know are of great courage and determination, of strength, who have overcome great challenges to be where they are. yu do nto just jettison such people without being sufre thats all.
is such a man as shive wants to play, what he has demonstrated all his life may still be at play. it is greater than all who are avialble now...ALL. if there is a chance that he can resurge then I I am willing to take that chance. I am willing to take that chance with Gayle, Sarwan. I wud have been willing to take that chance with all our great players before these current ones
the impression I have you is very westindian and very old, a very narrow perspective of theings and people westindian. I would bet any money that if you or we were considering a white man, a white player, all the factors of consideration I bring to bear on Shive, Dujon, Greenidge you would take naturally in stride.
that is because consciously or not we see, respond and treat white people as human and not ourselves and our own
that is how we have learned to treat each other, grew up that way. we feed each other nutten and how we get where we are is up to we. when we good all enjoy, and discard the moment there is the suggestion of an end to our usefulness and quality.
when I look at our old players what they achieved comes to mind. you have no idea what it was like living during the times of these players and their achievements. I remember quite in canada following Lara and Shive as Lara set a new world record....
I know shive as a fisehrman son who could barely read and write who made of himself a great player. there have been many like him in our annals. remember constantine. these are the human beings you know are of great courage and determination, of strength, who have overcome great challenges to be where they are. yu do nto just jettison such people without being sufre thats all.
is such a man as shive wants to play, what he has demonstrated all his life may still be at play. it is greater than all who are avialble now...ALL. if there is a chance that he can resurge then I I am willing to take that chance. I am willing to take that chance with Gayle, Sarwan. I wud have been willing to take that chance with all our great players before these current ones
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mapoui
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I dont see any other nation treating their players like you talk about Shive.
I see the Paks sending off Akhtar with huge billboards. I saw the Oz ensure their legspinner Warne was always ok, and he cslled his tune...the Lankans with Mural..they went out of their way to ensure that Murali had a Wurl Skup send-off.
the Oz again with Brett Lee, with Roy before he became too hard to handle...with all the players indeed.
it is time we came to love our own and treat them like human beings, worthy who brought credit and distiction to the people and to the region.
once we start to love ourselves and our own you will have a different perspective. you will know that Shive coming down. you would not be happy becuase we are losing a great player to age and time..but would accept it as natural. you would recall the memories he created and wish he could go some more. you would appreciate his proper treatment by administration, see that he is really done and can give no more, and that he is sent off properly...like Walsh was...one of the very few westindian players given a proper send-off in westindies history.
you read like a brutal man AFRO. you mus' appreciate for others what you would like for yourself. that makes us and the life in which we live better all the way around...FOR EVERYBODY...INCLUDING YOU!
I see the Paks sending off Akhtar with huge billboards. I saw the Oz ensure their legspinner Warne was always ok, and he cslled his tune...the Lankans with Mural..they went out of their way to ensure that Murali had a Wurl Skup send-off.
the Oz again with Brett Lee, with Roy before he became too hard to handle...with all the players indeed.
it is time we came to love our own and treat them like human beings, worthy who brought credit and distiction to the people and to the region.
once we start to love ourselves and our own you will have a different perspective. you will know that Shive coming down. you would not be happy becuase we are losing a great player to age and time..but would accept it as natural. you would recall the memories he created and wish he could go some more. you would appreciate his proper treatment by administration, see that he is really done and can give no more, and that he is sent off properly...like Walsh was...one of the very few westindian players given a proper send-off in westindies history.
you read like a brutal man AFRO. you mus' appreciate for others what you would like for yourself. that makes us and the life in which we live better all the way around...FOR EVERYBODY...INCLUDING YOU!