Justice for Shiv

[AFRO]

which is exactly what I said. so I left him alone so he cyan learn without my obstruction!

No don't "leave me alone" grandpops say what you wanna say!! .

BTW i'm an adult, not a "youngster", so lets get that cleared up once and for all!! .

[mapoui]

there are ways life goes we call human/humane.

there is a way humans function socially that is best to be developed honed, encouraged. yu cant just dismiss Shive and talk about him after almost 20 years like Afro talks about him. we know he has to go, we understand that time catches up. but it is how we deal with it. that is the key.

lloyd brought Kanhai out of retirement in clear appreciation of the great man. it is the way Richardson was expected to behave relative to Viv... in 1995 was it...but refused to include Viv becuase he said Viv would be a devisive influence.

that is the attitude that ultimately wrecked Richardson captaincy and career, and disqualfies him now totally from involvement in westindies admin forever. that he is in now is because of the like-minded a##holes from st loosha now running things into the ground

[BallOil]

Afro,
Here is WI Team stats for Test cricket in the last 12 months again... Look at the stats carefully again, show us how Shiv's runs and average is out of form compared to the team. Tell me if an out of form player would face 1000+ balls which is almost more than half of what the team faced.

[AFRO]

Afro,
Here is WI Team stats for Test cricket in the last 12 months again... Look at the stats carefully again, show us how Shiv's runs and average is out of form compared to the team. Tell me if an out of form player would face 1000+ balls which is almost more than half of what the team faced.

WHAT DID I TELL YOU ALREADY? 160 of those runs was on a FLAT TRACK in a boring match that was drawn, take away that score and his average for the last 12 months would be sub standard, another thing to ponder is SHIV WAS CRAP AGAINST SL, that isn't even a debate but it seems like you wanna hide behind manipulative "averages" rather than face the truth .

[AFRO]

there are ways life goes we call human/humane.

there is a way humans function socially that is best to be developed honed, encouraged. yu cant just dismiss Shive and talk about him after almost 20 years like Afro talks about him. we know he has to go, we understand that time catches up. but it is how we deal with it. that is the key.

I've got huge respect for Shiv and he is LEGEND without any question, at his best he was a joy to watch and he dragged us out of some very tough situations countless times, BUT NOTHING LASTS FOREVER, what's so wrong in telling the truth? i tell the truth about Sammy even though he seems to care about WI cricket more than 90% of the players who wear the WI shirt so why shouldn't i tell the truth about Shiv? you take things too personal man!!.

lloyd brought Kanhai out of retirement in clear appreciation of the great man. it is the way Richardson was expected to behave relative to Viv... in 1995 was it...but refused to include Viv becuase he said Viv would be a devisive influence.

The past is the past man, we're in 2011 now and we can't keep looking backwards, our history is the greatest in the game, but it's time to CREATE A GOOD FUTURE NOW, and we won't do that by relying on the likes of Shiv all the time.

[mapoui]

The past is the past man, we're in 2011 now and we can't keep looking backwards, our history is the greatest in the game, but it's time to CREATE A GOOD FUTURE NOW, and we won't do that by relying on the likes of Shiv all the time.

wats important to you..living...or the linear principles upon which your mind is organised?

I see evolution in which all things come from something previous. all things look what they came out of, what gave rise to them. all things require a certain set of circumstances in which it is to best survive, and in our case we can create those circumstances.

if only currently is important you should not teach your children how to behave, fitting then out for the future...for in their future their past wont be important, wont mean a thing... so they shud wait for their future to do anything at all

[mapoui]

who is relying on shive all the time? not me! I dont know wat yu reading in what i say. I have said all that you are saying save you are missing the essence of being human, how we deal with ourselves, the kind of social reality we must have in order to survive.

its is essental that in the widest sense we undeerstand life and how to relate properly, to develop all that is human so that we have social cohesion, of a quality that sends us forward satisfied, not allways with regreat and bad-blood knawing away at our souls.

we do not hurt ourselves by treating shive properly, like we shud have treated so many before.

that is the same bullshit that underpins westindian troubles right now....with an idiot and insular ledership up in Antigua, picking their own whether they are worthy or not.

what you shud do is go talk to the dotties of old, ask them about their feelings as they grew up and their players, all worthy of westindian considertion, were unceremoniously neglected by the then wicbc?

ask them about what they felt when weekes and walcott targeted their fast bowlers and punished the lights out of them, to get 19 year old Hall on the side in 1957...

there are seriously hard attitudes up the Dots, hardened over decades of awful treatment at the hands of the bigger territories, and not only in cricket. we getting paid back in full for that now...things began in past oh so long ago

[mapoui]

but it's time to CREATE A GOOD FUTURE NOW,

how in the hell are you going to create a 'good future' without understanding that past and developing some positive way to address all the problems it confronts us with currently?

I have placed our insular past squarely in the class history of the region, point to its transcendence under Lloyd and Richards, and argue that it will be overcome in a reformist or revolutionary westindies, but not by the current status quo, including the Dottie elites, all of which remain rooted in the old dying class sytem and capitalist relations.

what say yu then...if you not focused so much on today like a man who fell to the earth today self?

[mapoui]

there is also he Indian aspect of the past for most of those on this board believe that african racism kept players of Indian descent off the westindies team in the past!

how are you going to deal with that blast from the past Afro...especially if west-Indians ascend to wicb control and start playing mostly payers of Indian descent..hardend over the decades just like the Dotties are?

are you going to toss the past then and focus on the now and the future? is that your approach?

wat say yu then?

[BallOil]

The past is the past man, we're in 2011 now and we can't keep looking backwards, our history is the greatest in the game, but it's time to CREATE A GOOD FUTURE NOW, and we won't do that by relying on the likes of Shiv all the time.

wats important to you..living...or the linear principles upon which your mind is organised?

I see evolution in which all things come from something previous. all things look what they came out of, what gave rise to them. all things require a certain set of circumstances in which it is to best survive, and in our case we can create those circumstances.

if only currently is important you should not teach your children how to behave, fitting then out for the future...for in their future their past wont be important, wont mean a thing... so they shud wait for their future to do anything at all

Well said Mapoui! I'm really happy that you are around here bro.