CARLTON BAUGH: Worthwhile Replacement For Ramdin ?

[The Black Prince]

Carlton Baugh is playing in his 7th test match since replacing the failing Denesh Ramdin.

Baugh's wicketkeeping has been excellent!

Ramdin's wicketkeeping was also excellent.

But Ramdin was dropped because of his poor batting.

SO HOW HAS BAUGH DONE WITH THE BAT SINCE REPLACING RAMDIN ?

Check out his test scores:

8*, 50, 2, 4, 7, 6, 18, 27, 0, 2 = 124 runs = 13.77 avg

Baugh has clearly failed with the bat in tests since replacing Ramdin---13.77 average.



RE: RAMDIN'S SCORES IN HIS LAST 6 TESTS

54, 16, 4, 0, 8, 14, 25*, 9, 1, 27, 1 = 159 runs = 15.90 avg

Ramdin failed horribly with the bat in his last 6 tests---15.90 avg


Both Baugh and Ramdin have been gross failures with the bat.

Should Ramdin return ?

NO!

Give Baugh and extended run.

[howzdat]

... only if Gayle comes in I wud make a change and dat wud be to drop Baugh and put simmons behind. in fact I would have done dat for this test here and play Edwards the batsman too. its a waste to play Baugh when 2 things are clear about Simmons and 1 about Baugh:

[1] Baugh will never amount to much as a batsman at the top level. And neither will simmons amount to the top class batsman he needs to be up the order.

[2] Simoms is a better batsman than Baugh and we will certainly get more from him at #7 than from Baugh.

[3] Simmons is as good as Baugh as a keeper and with experience is likely to get better

I think it is a suggestion worth a try IF/WHEN Gayle gets back in. If Gayle does not return then I would give Ramdin a chance. However in cricket nowadays it is imperative that the wicketkeeper contributes with the bat so whoever it is HAS to make runs.

All the test teams have been tending to select batsmen keepers for some time so WI have been behind the curve on this development in the game. The more i think about it the more I like the idea of giving Simmons a chance to keep and bat down the order. He is a much better player than Ramdin also.

[mapoui]

NOTICE TO OTISS GIBBO.....DO A DUJON WITH SIMMONS AND DROP BAUGH

PIK SIMONS AS KEPPER/BATSMAN AND BAT HIM AT NUMBER 7

BRING BACK GAYLE AND MEK HIM OPEN WITH BARATH

[BallOil]

NOTICE TO OTISS GIBBO.....DO A DUJON WITH SIMMONS AND DROP BAUGH

PIK SIMONS AS KEPPER/BATSMAN AND BAT HIM AT NUMBER 7

BRING BACK GAYLE AND MEK HIM OPEN WITH BARATH

I disagree with this Maps...Simmons is not a better batter than Ramdin in Test. Baugh has the same FC batting avg as Smmmo. In test you pick your best keeper...

Maybe in the T20s and ODIs you can try that but NOT for Test.

[mapoui]

SIMMONS HAS NIOT PLAYED AS MUCH AS BAUGH AND RAMDIN. i BELIEVE sIMMONS IS A BETTER BATSMAN DAN BOTH OF THOSE 2.

BUT SOMEBODY HAVE TO MAKE DAT %7 POSITION PRODUCTIVE. AT LEAST FOR THE NEXT TEST i WUD PUT SIMMONS THERE AND BRING GAYLE BACK.

IF BAUGH HAD BATTED FOR AVERAGE TODAY WE WUD HAVE PASSED iNDIA

[BallOil]

Wicketkeeping it a specialist position.... Simmons is NOT a specialist keeper. WI can't afford to a have a makeshift test keeper. Simmons is a batsman and have to prove his worth as such.

you could try him in the T20s or ODIs. But that would mean he is not a batsman who can command a batting spot.

[howzdat]

Hello again folks. Nice debate. BallOil I can see where you are coming from with your regard for the status of the keeper in the Test game, however in addition to it being a spesialism, the recent trend in international cricket has been for selectors to view it as an all-rounder's position. The top teams do not select a lineup where the batting 'ends' when the keeper walks in!

The keeper therefore has to work hard at both disciplines because he could either find himself having to marshall the tail towards a score or as was needed yesterday drop anchor, play himself in, rotate the strike, and support the set batsman. Then, once he himself is in he must possess the temperament and stroke play to wreak a sort of 'shock and awe' on the bowling attack i.e. take the game away from the opposition.

Some may not view the keeper's role in the team in the same way that I do, in which case if the selectors feel that Ramdin is a better keeper than Baugh why don't they select him in the team?

I am open to the idea of Simmons as keeper batting lower in the order because we have seen eveidence in the one day games that he has worked hard at his batting and has contributed well. So why not set him the additional challenge of improving his keeping so as to bat lower down the order. Maybe all three of them can work together on that single aim so that whoever is picked the benefit to the team remains the same.

Till some of these things are considered I am afraid we will continue to see the side folding once the 6th batsman is out. To change this trend I think we have to adjust our vision of the role.

[AFRO]

The fact of the matter is even if we gave Simmons the gloves HE'S STILL BATTING VERY POORLY IN THE TESTS, so i believe he'd go the same way as Ramdin and Baugh, and that would be a disaster when you consider that he's not as good with the gloves as they are,

Imo it would be a MASSIVE risk making Simmons the keeper, he kept wicket in an ODi against Pakistan the other day and i wasn't impressed to be honest, too many balls got past him and ran away for four, and in the Test a keeper MUST take the half chances we create otherwise we'll pay the price like we did when Sammy drop that easy chance off Dravid,

So i believe we must try a new tactic, and that's to TRY A YOUNGSTER!!, we have three very talented one's waiting in the wings, they read as followed..

1. Kyle Corbin

In the last four day competition he was absolutely sensational for CCC, scored a ton and four 50s, but he really should have gotten anothert two tons and came very close, in the end he ended up with 573 runs which made him the 5th heighest run getter, MORE RUNS THAN BOTH RAMDIN AND SIMMONS, he also took 15 catches behind the stumps too, he averages 30 right now in first class cricket.

2. Shane Dowrich

The Bim youngster has already played for the A-team and scored a 60 against Zimbabwe, last season he scored 217 runs at an average of 36 with three NOT OUTS, which to me personifies his battling qualities, i first saw him for the WI u19s and he looks like a natural stroke maker, behind the stumps he was very impressive too, taking 20 catches behind the stumps, right now he averages 30 aswell.

3. Jahmar Hamilton

This leewards youngster has been very impressive in the last two four day competitions imo, often he's come to the crease when his team is in disarray and he's steadied the ship and took his team to a respectable total, last season he scored 330 runs at an average of 33 and got two 50s in the process, with one of those scores being 83, behind the stumps he took 14 catches in 5 games which is impressive considering the other guys played more games than him, right now he averages 30 too,

Those are the guys we shoud be bringing through, not going back to proven failures like Ramdin or Thomas, if i had to chose one now i think i'd go for Hamilton or Corbin, but i'd still feel confident that Dorwich could do well aswell if he got the chance.

[mapoui]

I have been looking at cricket for a long time now and in all dat time I have seen but 1 keeper at international level start young and succeded.
one car argue dat deryck Murray also succeeded for he set a new keeping record at 19 for the westindies.

but Murray just had an exceptioanl season, the luck of the beginner and thereafter regressed to his real state or ordinary, until he was literally foeced on the team at the expense of the better keeper Mike findlay...another dottie case of discrimination against the bigger region.

only by the age of 30 did Murray become a competent keeper. he as not the best keepr in the westindies. he never was. he played because he was Lance Murrays son.

but the point is kppers do not mature early but later. and that is the problem I belive with Ramdain, staring too early has doomed him. experience has proved that keeping is a spot for a player ove 25...a mature or maturing player.

by that measurment Baugh shud be having his best years at 28-29. and he is. it is jeust that he is not good enough with the bat.

the only young keeper I have ever seen succeed is Tatender Taibu, from Zim! he came in at 18 and was god from the start

[mapoui]

age rules out all the young keepers in my book. I will pik none of them until they are seasoned, 25 and beyoond..unless we have an emergency situation.

we had dat and se we were forced to slect ramdin too early. I expect Ramdin to return and fulfill all expected of him from the start. I belive he is lucky he got droped. he has the chance now to mature ion local and dung heap.

we will know if and when Ramdin is ready to returns when he starts to care up westindian bolwing consiently, while keeping excellently..once beyond 25..which I believe he is now..he starts to play like dat and keeps it up for a year, 2..he is the man. he shud be recalled and all will be well with westindies keeping for the next 7-10 years.

and by that time his replacements would all have matured themselves and at in their late twenies ready to assume the top position.

when ramdin was selected it was the first in a very long time westindies did not have a mature keeper waiting in the wings to take oer. even when deryck Murray got in in 1963, David Allan, the white Bajan ws in that team as the #1 keeper. he was older by Murray did so well he was selected instead, and had a charmed season, a dream season.