Afro seh Baugh is a #6 Test batter...

[mapoui]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, BAUGH HAS ONLY PLAYED 8 TEST MATCHES!!! I repeat 8!!! You and mapoui can't come here, and with a modicum of seriousness, say that you have seen enough of Baugh to make a decisive and informed judgement that he is absolutely and totally inept at holding down a number 6 spot after only 8 damn matches

Oh YES I can Cuffman! but I never implied the alternative you imply..Ramdin!

I have never seen the keeping situation as strictly a duel between Ramdin and Baugh...they are both not good enuff...but one of an unfortunate lack of experience that suddenly developed in westindies keeping

all who have been following know my argument:

internationally keepers do not mature till their mid to late twenties.

none of the great westindian keepers began their test careers before 26.

by the dismissal of Jacobs and the retirement under failure by courtney browne, westindies were left with Ramdin and Baugh.

but baugh was earlier and had his clear chance at the job and messed-up as I described above, allowing Ramdin into the mix. Ramdin impressed early and won the extended chance he enjoyed. his keeping was always decent but his batting went south from an initial high.

but it was clear westindies was without the esential experience behind, dat comes only with age and experience.

in my time watching cricket only Tatenda Taibu has bucked the keeping trend, starting at 18 for Zimbabwe and being good from the start to now, but westindies for the first time in a very long time were without an' experienced keeper waiting in the wings

[mapoui]

to my way of assessing things westindies were in trouble behind until we developed seasoned keepers.

I even suggested bringing back the experienced Windwards keeper at the time, and let Baugh and ramdin understudy him until about now, when baugh is middle to late twenties and ramdin about 25. only time and experience could get those guys ready as is the way with keepers.

and I argued recently here, in keeping with my line in the issue that now is Baughs time as he had reached the age when he shud begin to flower as a keeper.

what I have been saying however is dat Baugh himself appears to me to be not too smart given the attitude I perceived of him.

that has been my point on Baugh from the start! Baugh is not a smart cricketer, not a smart person and dat gurantess his failure. I argued this 5 years ago in RSA. I have had no cause to change my mind in the interim.

the answer is to the keeping seems to be to persist with baugh and let Ramdin take the job in the next few years by pure development and performance in dung heap...if baugh does not solidify the job at the top with performance of his own. in the meantine the younger keepers will be maturing in their own right.

the job at the top belongs to baugh... or ramdin for the next 5 years because of the experience factor. westindies have no choice but either of those 2 at the moment.

but I do not see Baugh as doing much better than he has so far. and dat aint all of dat!

[cuffman]

BTW, we are talking Test cricket here, FC stats are irrelevant I think ...

Bally, are you serious??? This statement is identical to the miscreant spewed all over CC on a daily basis! So what other criteria do we have to judge a player's potential to perform at the international level if we are not going to give regard to his FC exploits? What's the point in having a blasted FC competition in the first place then???

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, BAUGH HAS ONLY PLAYED 8 TEST MATCHES!!! I repeat 8!!! You and mapoui can't come here, and with a modicum of seriousness, say that you have seen enough of Baugh to make a decisive and informed judgement that he is absolutely and totally inept at holding down a number 6 spot after only 8 damn matches!

The most pathetic thing with the both of you is that you all are very apologetic in your assessments of the proven shithound Ramdin who, after 42 matches, couldn't muster an average of 25 with the bat. But hey, who really was expecting anything more from a man with an average of 29 in our 'lowly' FC competition?

Bally, try and engage your brain and answer the questions posed to you here and in another thread about whether or not you would compromise the ability of the team to take 20 wickets by accommodating 7 batsmen along with Sammy in the 11!

FC Stats are irreverent if we are talking strictly about Test ...no? There is a big difference in the standard of cricket between FC and Test, right? As you can see, FC stats don't necessary translate to or equivalent to Tests numbers...For example, Shiv FC 54 & Test 49, Samuels, FC 38 & 28, Gayle FC 44 & 41, Simmons FC 34 & 14, DS Smith FC 37 & 25...

Oh! So Baugh's 11 FC centuries and avg. of 36 don't matter in this context, but as far as you are concerned 8 sparodic matches is enough to jest about percieved ineptitude? Carry on...

[cuffman]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, BAUGH HAS ONLY PLAYED 8 TEST MATCHES!!! I repeat 8!!! You and mapoui can't come here, and with a modicum of seriousness, say that you have seen enough of Baugh to make a decisive and informed judgement that he is absolutely and totally inept at holding down a number 6 spot after only 8 damn matches

Oh YES I can Cuffman! but I never implied the alternative you imply..Ramdin!

I have never seen the keeping situation as strictly a duel between Ramdin and Baugh...they are both not good enuff...but one of an unfortunate lack of experience that suddenly developed in westindies keeping

all who have been following know my argument:

internationally keepers do not mature till their mid to late twenties.

none of the great westindian keepers began their test careers before 26.

by the dismissal of Jacobs and the retirement under failure by courtney browne, westindies were left with Ramdin and Baugh.

but baugh was earlier and had his clear chance at the job and messed-up as I described above, allowing Ramdin into the mix. Ramdin impressed early and won the extended chance he enjoyed. his keeping was always decent but his batting went south from an initial high.

but it was clear westindies was without the esential experience behind, dat comes only with age and experience.

in my time watching cricket only Tatenda Taibu has bucked the keeping trend, starting at 18 for Zimbabwe and being good from the start to now, but westindies for the first time in a very long time were without an' experienced keeper waiting in the wings

Look, I'm not a Baugh 'groupie', nor am I even a Yardie to have insular motives. All I'm simply saying is that Baugh deserves his place in the WI team at this point in time ahead of all and sundry, and whatever 'criticisms' folks may have of him cannot be justified by anything substantial statistically, rather it is based almost entirely on unfounded bias and raw cynicism that is reflected in threads such as these.

[mapoui]

Look, I'm not a Baugh 'groupie', nor am I even a Yardie to have insular motives. All I'm simply saying is that Baugh deserves his place in the WI team at this point in time ahead of all and sundry, and whatever 'criticisms' folks may have of him cannot be justified by anything substantial statistically, rather it is based almost entirely on unfounded bias and raw cynicism that is reflected in threads such as these.

I dont know what this means.

I developed a position on the keeping question a long time now. all my posts are archieved here.

my approach to baugh is not new. I have posts archived on sissy dot com of 5 years old on the issue as well.

I am considering westindies players. I admit dat baugh is prolly the payer to go with at this time. he has no competition.

yet I do not see baugh as a quality player, never did etc.

and dats the end of dat! stick me with a fork I am done!

[BallOil]

Cuffman....please reread from the top, you just overreacting here I was just asking Afro to tell me more about this #6 Test batter...

Baugh is definitely NOT a # 6 in test . If Baugh is a good enough batsman at the test level... Why wasn't he selected to play as batsman for WI when Ramdin was keeping or as the keeper?

[cuffman]

Cuffman....please reread from the top, you just overreacting here I was just asking Afro to tell me more about this #6 Test batter...

Baugh is definitely NOT a # 6 in test . If Baugh is a good enough batsman at the test level... Why wasn't he selected to play as batsman for WI when Ramdin was keeping or as the keeper?

I have my own thoughts on the above, however since it was directed at Afro, I'll leave it for him to tackle. Cheers!

[BallOil]

Cuffman....please reread from the top, you just overreacting here I was just asking Afro to tell me more about this #6 Test batter...

Baugh is definitely NOT a # 6 in test . If Baugh is a good enough batsman at the test level... Why wasn't he selected to play as batsman for WI when Ramdin was keeping or as the keeper?

I have my own thoughts on the above, however since it was directed at Afro, I'll leave it for him to tackle. Cheers!

let's deal with it now... would really like to hear your thoughts on this


Let's not get carried away...Here are the WI keepers stats

Walcott and Dujon were batsmen turned keepers.... Remove the two of them and watch the rest

[cuffman]

Cuffman....please reread from the top, you just overreacting here I was just asking Afro to tell me more about this #6 Test batter...

Baugh is definitely NOT a # 6 in test . If Baugh is a good enough batsman at the test level... Why wasn't he selected to play as batsman for WI when Ramdin was keeping or as the keeper?

I have my own thoughts on the above, however since it was directed at Afro, I'll leave it for him to tackle. Cheers!

let's deal with it now... would really like to hear your thoughts on this


Let's not get carried away...Here are the WI keepers stats

Walcott and Dujon were batsmen turned keepers.... Remove the two of them and watch the rest

Well, if you insist...My thoughts are not much different to what I mentioned here in response to your apparent surprise at my inclusion of Baugh at #6 for the 1st match tommorrow.

It really is very simple, the options are two with Sammy in the line-up:

1) Strenghten the bowling with 4 specialist bowlers and thereby forego an extra batsman (i.e. go for 20 wickets and try to win the match with the top 5 batsmen having the responsibility of doing the brunt of the scoring).
2) Bolster the batting and go into the match with a bowler short (the most probable result in such a case IMO is a draw).

It is my opinion (given that Sammy WILL play) that we should go for the 1st option and hence that means Baugh will have to bat at #6.

As I said previously, it is not ideal, but it is the better option IMO than going into a 5-day match short of bowling options.

You get it?

[BallOil]

so what if WI get the 20 wickets and can't make the runs?

Sammy is a bowler, that's it! Let him pull his weight.