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Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:06 pm
by AFRO
mapoui wrote:who is relying on shive all the time? not me! I dont know wat yu reading in what i say. I have said all that you are saying save you are missing the essence of being human, how we deal with ourselves, the kind of social reality we must have in order to survive.
its is essental that in the widest sense we undeerstand life and how to relate properly, to develop all that is human so that we have social cohesion, of a quality that sends us forward satisfied, not allways with regreat and bad-blood knawing away at our souls.
we do not hurt ourselves by treating shive properly, like we shud have treated so many before.
that is the same bullshit that underpins westindian troubles right now....with an idiot and insular ledership up in Antigua, picking their own whether they are worthy or not.
what you shud do is go talk to the dotties of old, ask them about their feelings as they grew up and their players, all worthy of westindian considertion, were unceremoniously neglected by the then wicbc?
ask them about what they felt when weekes and walcott targeted their fast bowlers and punished the lights out of them, to get 19 year old Hall on the side in 1957...
there are seriously hard attitudes up the Dots, hardened over decades of awful treatment at the hands of the bigger territories, and not only in cricket. we getting paid back in full for that now...things began in past oh so long ago
The thing is you're going off on a tangent and talking about issues that really don't have anything to do with the main discussion at hand which is SHOULD SHIV PLAY IN THE TEST TEAM AGAINST PAK?!!..your tales of lifes ills and search for salvation are intersting to read but the fact is this world was never made to be perfect, it's a place full of devils where only a few angels roam, but still none of that has anything to do with whether Shiv should continue to play for WI or not
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Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:16 pm
by AFRO
mapoui wrote:there is also he Indian aspect of the past for most of those on this board believe that african racism kept players of Indian descent off the westindies team in the past!
how are you going to deal with that blast from the past Afro...especially if west-Indians ascend to wicb control and start playing mostly payers of Indian descent..hardend over the decades just like the Dotties are?
are you going to toss the past then and focus on the now and the future? is that your approach?
wat say yu then?
So that's whats behind your huge defence of Shiv? just because he's Indian?
at the end of the day the West indies team of the past WAS THE GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME, what were the selectors meant to do? play Indian players who wasn't better than the ones who were already playing?
and it's funny how you're talking about "race" and yet you're so ignorant where Nash is concerned!!..you can't have it both ways.
My team would have Barath, Bishoo and maybe Sarwan in it, and if you know my history on Caribbeancricket you'd know i was pushing Bishoo's name before anyone else and i'm a big fan of Kantasingh, it's not about race for me, it's about having the best players represent WI.
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:23 pm
by Googley
Afro, we look back to our past to see the right things we have done so we can continue to do it. We also look back to see what we could have done better and improve on it.
clearly, Richie's treatment of Viv was a bad move and should be avoided.
Yet, you woud like to treat Shiv the same way.
Let me remind you, Shiv is only 36! He still have some good cricket in him. Yes, he is going thru a bad patch so why not give him a chance to prove that? If he was 30, I am sure you would have given him another chance!
Lik Maps said, we all know he has to go sometime but given the recent performance of the WI team, most cricket fans will agree that he needs to be in the middle with the youngsters.
The youngster will learn from Shiv, not the clappo!
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:28 pm
by mapoui
So that's whats behind your huge defence of Shiv? just because he's Indian? at the end of the day the West indies team of the past WAS THE GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME, what were the selectors meant to do? play Indian players who wasn't better than the ones who were already playing? and it's funny how you're talking about "race" and yet you're so ignorant where Nash is concerned!!..you can't have it both ways.
behind my huge defense of shive...? I thought you were supposed to take dat at face value and not ask such questions?
my defence of shive is equal to your opposition to his selection at his time...as well as the clear intention of the coach and the manager to get rid of the senior players.
believe shive shud not be dropped, that he still has some more to give to the westindies...that dropping him would be a mistake and leave the team weaker than it already is.
this is how I look at the batting line up. Gayle is the best opener but gayle has technical problems that renders him vulnerable to the Pak ball works..spin and reverse swing.
young Barath is good but he is inexperienced yet and I have seen him set and throw his wicket away just like that.
we cant count on dat pair for a whole lot.
Bravo has been worked out and he must now counter what the opposition has worked out for him. sarwan is not in form. he too is young enough to have more in the tank. snars is not a great batsman. against good opostion big fifties is the best we can exect from him. on featherbeds he scores everytime but not when the opposition can bowl well in reasonable conditions.
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:34 pm
by mapoui
Shive is the only batsman in there we know who if he is in form and still capable run off tons, big ones most of the time...the only one with a technique and focus capable of going on and on and on.
lil B may come up to the table. we may get 2 tons at most from Sars..as he sometimes gave in series. but shive remains the man most capable if not likely.
in the conditions we have to be careful not to discard that man without making sufre we are doing the right thing.
its just straight common sense to me Afro. common sense.
yet I will admit that here is more to the shive defense on my part but that is a whole related story but is not quite relevant to this discussion
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:43 pm
by mapoui
Shive is the only batsman in there we know who if he is in form and still capable run off tons, big ones most of the time...the only one with a technique and focus capable of going on and on and on.
lil B may come up to the table. we may get 2 tons at most from Sars..as he sometimes gave in series. but shive remains the man most capable if not likely.
in the conditions we have to be careful not to discard that man without making sure we are doing the right thing.
its just straight common sense to me Afro. common sense.
yet I will admit that here is more to the shive defense on my part but that is a whole related story but is not quite relevant to this discussion
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:52 pm
by mapoui
My team would have Barath, Bishoo and maybe Sarwan in it, and if you know my history on Caribbeancricket you'd know i was pushing Bishoo's name before anyone else and i'm a big fan of Kantasingh, it's not about race for me, it's about having the best players represent WI.
no I dont know your history on sissy! but my defence of shive has nutten to do with him being Indian in the sense you have conveyed here.
the westindies team shud be selectd on merit..period! I do not believe that Indians have been discriminated against by the wicb and selection. on the contrary I believe the wicb bent over backwards to get a few westindisna of Indian descenton the team when here were few vying for a test place.
but that is the feelings i have seen expressed strongly on sissy, on 446 and elsewhere. we have to deal with it is what I am saying, just as we must deal with Dottie insularity in the consruction of a proper cricket environent.
and about snars and my ignorance on that issue...you have a problem reading, with comprehension like some here used to have when reading what I say. I have built a clear, precise, organised case for my rejection of snarsh in the westindies team. that is what you are calling ignorance and prejudice. read it again and see who in fact is being ignorant!
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:11 pm
by Googley
Code: Select all
believe the wicb bent over backwards to get a few westindisna of Indian descenton the team when here were few vying for a test place.
do you care to expand on that???
who they "accomodate" similar to the likes of Sammy ?
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:45 pm
by AFRO
Googley wrote:Afro, we look back to our past to see the right things we have done so we can continue to do it. We also look back to see what we could have done better and improve on it.
clearly, Richie's treatment of Viv was a bad move and should be avoided.
Yet, you woud like to treat Shiv the same way.
But that's my whole point, WHATS HAPPENED IN THE PAST SHOULD NOT BE USED AS AN EXCUSE TO STICK WITH THE STATUS QUO TODAY, Shiv is playing poorly therefore he deserves to be dropped, using examples from an era far different to the one we have now is futile in the extreme imo,
Let me remind you, Shiv is only 36! He still have some good cricket in him. Yes, he is going thru a bad patch so why not give him a chance to prove that? If he was 30, I am sure you would have given him another chance!
What do you mean "only 36"?
Shiv is no Tendulkar!!..if he was playing well he wouldn't have been dropped twice already, He's been poor for over a year, so one could argue he's been given chances already.
Lik Maps said, we all know he has to go sometime but given the recent performance of the WI team, most cricket fans will agree that he needs to be in the middle with the youngsters.
The youngster will learn from Shiv, not the clappo!
What "youngsters"? Nash, Samuels and Gayle would be in my line-up, they aren't youngsters.
Re: Justice for Shiv
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:52 pm
by AFRO
mapoui wrote:behind my huge defense of shive...? I thought you were supposed to take dat at face value and not ask such questions?
YOU brought up the indian thing, not me!!
my defence of shive is equal to your opposition to his selection at his time...as well as the clear intention of the coach and the manager to get rid of the senior players.
No it isn't because i'm using the facts and also want whats best for the team while you're going on about "life" and Shiv's race!!..also i don't blame the WICB for wanting to get rid of senior players, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE FOR US OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS?
believe shive shud not be dropped, that he still has some more to give to the westindies...that dropping him would be a mistake and leave the team weaker than it already is.
And i believe dropping him and giving an IN FORM batsman like Samuels a chance would make the WI team better, we will never know who's right unless we try it.
this is how I look at the batting line up. Gayle is the best opener but gayle has technical problems that renders him vulnerable to the Pak ball works..spin and reverse swing.
young Barath is good but he is inexperienced yet and I have seen him set and throw his wicket away just like that.
we cant count on dat pair for a whole lot.
Bravo has been worked out and he must now counter what the opposition has worked out for him. sarwan is not in form. he too is young enough to have more in the tank. snars is not a great batsman. against good opostion big fifties is the best we can exect from him. on featherbeds he scores everytime but not when the opposition can bowl well in reasonable conditions.
Well Shiv has his own problems too otherwise he wouldn't have been dropped would he?